There has been an interesting debate occurring on Facebook on the profile page of a well known TV quizzer. I won't mention names suffice to say this chap now makes a living from a tv quiz show.
Anyway, he raised the point in a status update concerning whether it was "ethical" for a "Professional Quizzer" to enter a normal pub quiz. This started a very good debate with top Uk quizzers chipping in with opinions.
Although some quizzers stated that it was perhaps wrong for "professional" quizzers to enter a pub quiz, the vast consensus was that it was perfectly acceptable. This got me thinking about several stories I have read on Facebook and on blogs such as David Clark’s Life After Mastermind of occurrences when "professionals" have been barred from quizzes and asked not to come back. The debate lasted a while with a lot of strong opinions and interesting issues.
The first thing to mention is that this entirely depends on your definition of a “professional”. Obviously if we stick to the root meaning of the term, those that make a living from quizzing, then we are only talking about a very narrow bunch of people. The chances one of those walking into your pub quiz is slim so unless you are in that position it’s a small debate. However if we widen this to include people who take quizzing “seriously” and perhaps to whom its more than a hobby, then it gets more interesting.
1. The non-professional “Professionals”
I remember the first few quizzes I went to in a local. Obviously it was my first few tastes of quizzing in pubs and pub quiz culture shall we say. Close to the start of the quiz a team walked in and there was a groan on the table next to us with them stating “here are the professionals”. I am sure such phrases are heard all over the country in quizzes. Obviously, they were not “professionals” in that sense of the word, they were teachers and quizzed together socially. But because they seemed to win every week, which I soon learned, then they were deemed “professionals” by people who obviously meant - “better quizzers than us”.
Since then most quizzes I have been to regularly, this has happened. If a darts player or snooker player goes into a local pub, often people pay to play them. It’s been part of those sports for years. I remember Bobby George used to play in local pubs around the north east, making a decent wage from playing against people who played for the pleasure. Why is it then that a quiz “professional” who plays against the locals is treated differently? Perhaps it goes back to the school notion of “swats” and “know it alls”.
2. “Committed Quizzers”
What will please people who moan about committed quizzers entering pub quizzes? What is their hope? That they will turn away all competition so that they win every week?
My argument continued and I used my own case study. I consider myself a very committed quizzer. I work full time so spent the rest of my hours learning, quizzing and doing all I can to improve my quizzing skills. My only outlet at the moment is pub quizzing. I have tried to get on TV but failed so far, I am not starting quiz league playing until the next month or so and I cannot financially afford to go to all the GP’s. So without pub quizzing I have no outlet. Why should someone in a similar position as me feel bad or hesitant about doing something we love just because it isn’t considered “right” by some.
By being a committed Quizzer does that mean we as a bunch are spoiling it for others? I think not.
3. The Benefits of the regular winner
Does the average quiz player really only enter a quiz in the hope of winning? By barring professionals and good quizzers this is the message landlords and quiz masters are sending out. I do not for one second believe that regular winners ruins quizzes. Never in my experience has this happened.
In fact, I think the opposite occurs…..The pattern is simple and repeats itself. A team wins every week, this makes the quiz master more alert and up for the challenge and hence produces a better quiz. It could even lead to innovations and changes in the format to prevent repeat wins which sometimes could be for the better.
Also a regular winner can act as a measuring stick……A team that wins each week soon becomes known and people can measure their performance not just on placing but on the winners. “Only 7 points behind them this week…” etc etc. This certainly is the case in a few quizzes I attend.
4. The Moaners
Back to the question above. Does the average quiz player really only enter a quiz in the hope of winning? The answer is no.
I would say at least 75% of players in an average quiz are not focused on winning. Yes, everybody wants to do their best but winning is the focus of the minority. Let’s not forget it’s first and foremost a social occasion which is why the vast majority play. The people who are moaning obviously care about winning. Especially of a jackpot is concerned….money brings out the worst in people.
My theory is simple and maybe a bit harsh. If you are moaning about being beaten in a quiz…get better. You wouldn’t moan at Wayne Rooney because he is a better footballer than you, you wouldn’t moan at Usain Bolt because he runs faster….so why moan at regular pub going folk who happen to be better at quizzes than you? What happened to the “it’s the taking part that counts?”.
Phew…anyway rant over. Sorry it that seemed a bit random but the stories of good quizzers being banned from pubs and asked not to return irritates me a lot!
Hi Daniel
ReplyDeleteA very interesting post about what is actually a complicated issue, in my opinion. I think that what makes it so complicated is the whole idea of the quiz professional. As you say, the vast majority of quiz ‘professionals’ are nothing of the sort in the true meaning of the word. To be a professional is to have the occupation in question as one’s main source of income. It’s not a thing which I discuss on those occasions when I mingle with the great and the good within the quizzing world, but I would be very surprised if even the very best make anything approaching a living just from playing in quizzes, apart from those who are regulars on TV shows, and even then I have no idea how much they might earn per series.
Of course it isn’t as simple as that, since there are people who do make a living from hosting quizzes and setting quiz questions. Damn good luck to them, and I’d do it if I could myself.
Why do ‘semi-pros’ and committed quizzers want to play in pub quizzes anyway ? Well, immodestly including myself within that group, I can say that I see no reason why I should merely limit myself to big events like the CIU, the Mega Quiz, and the Grand Prix Circuit ( which incidentally is difficult for me anyway due to the distance, time and cost involved ). I know that some people would ask – what do I get out of it, playing people who are not serious about quizzing, and winning all the time ? Well, for one thing I do not win all the time. I believe that if you ask any serious quizzer who regularly plays in pub quizzes they will tell you the same thing. For another thing, just because people only play in their one quiz a week, and would never dream of entering a grand prix type competition, or applying for a TV quiz, it doesn’t mean that they have no ability, and it doesn’t mean that they don’t take their one quiz a week just as seriously as the ‘serious’ quizzers themselves do. There is nearly always a challenge, and nearly always at least something of interest within the quiz for even the most serious players. For example, I can count the number of times I have had 100% correct answers in one evening in the last 25 years on the fingers of 2 hands. Not that I would ever claim that I’m one of the very best, or even close to it.
Does the committed quizzer spoil the quiz for others ? Well, that’s a tricky one. I can accept that it must be galling for people to enter knowing that , barring it being that once in a blue moon, there is only ever likely to be one winner for a particular quiz. Should people care that much about whether they win or lose a particular game ? Maybe not, in a perfect world, but it’s not a perfect world. We are a competitive species. I have had experience of teams stopping coming to a quiz John and I used to frequent in the Dynevor Arms in Groesfaen. We didn’t win every time at all, but probably more than any other , and it really didn’t help that there were just the two of us in our team. The organizer, Ralph, won my respect by not asking us not to come, but changing the rules of the quiz so that scoring most points did not guarantee a win. When he explained why he was doing so John and I voluntarily decided to absent ourselves, and parted with that quiz on decent terms.
ReplyDeleteI take your analogy with the dart players – indeed I once played against Mr. Bojangles himself in the North Star in Greenwich, many years ago. But it’s not the same. I’ll try to explain. I could turn up to a new quiz, win, and if it came out that I was a Mastermind winner then some people would be fine about it, but others would start the moaning. Now if my friend Mark Labbet did the same, I think it would be a different story. People would be happy to play, because it would give them something to tell other people about because Mark is a TV quiz star. I’m not having a go at Mark at all here, but just explaining how it is.
As regards being banned from quizzes – I can bring three to mind at once. One of them had nothing to do with my performance , or lack of it, in a particular quiz. It was due to some injudicious comments I made on LAM about the quiz. I don’t deliberately go out of my way to upset people, so I won’t go into the whole business all over again here. Live and learn. As for the other two, money seemed to be at the heart of both of them. The first was in the Tunnel Tavern in Neath. It offered a £100 first prize , boasted of in a big banner outside the pub. On actual playing it turned out that you had to score 50 or more out of 60 to win the jackpot. Nobody had ever achieved it in the 9 months leading up to the first time John and I played there. We made sure that we didn’t go every week, but even playing just once a month , the 4th time we turned up, having won the jackpot on the other three, we were asked – very nicely but firmly – to leave. The landlord’s words went something like “As far as I’m concerned, if a prize is there, it’s there to be won, but my regulars don’t like it because you only ever turn up to win the money. “ I didn’t like it at the time, but it is a reason I can understand.
The other time was at a Sunday quiz in Bridgend. The quiz itself had a token prize, but a very good jackpot. One week John and I took £150 from them, and the next week £50. John is well known amongst the quiz fraternity in Bridgend , and so a message was relayed to us that we’d had our lot and would not be allowed to play in the Sunday quiz again.
ReplyDeleteDo I like it ? No. Do I understand it ? Well, yes, I do. Don’t get me wrong, I have often myself used the argument that if people get sick of me winning , then they should do something about it the right way, i.e. , improving their own knowledge and becoming better. But that’s not realistic, though, is it.
People like to whinge. Brits like to whinge a lot, and quizzers, even more so. I think that you are never going to stop a certain type of person moaning whenever someone other than themselves win – Heaven knows I do enough of this myself !
Is it ever right to ban serious quizzers from playing in a particular quiz. I don’t think so. But on the other hand, I feel that there is an onus on the serious quizzer to approach the quiz in a certain way. Never, ever rub anyone’s nose in it. I wouldn’t accept the prize every time if you’re going to go every week. When marking other teams’ papers, always give them the benefit of the doubt and err on the side of generosity. When you do get beaten, show a generosity of spirit towards the winners. Don’t make a nuisance of yourself, but be friendly , open, and ready for a chat with anyone who wants one.
Then if they still moan about you, just keep on winning.